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non-religious Christian Challenge


 Are We Good People?
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One of my jobs at the Salvation Army Adult Rehabilitation Center in Nashville is to interview men who are new to our center. I have to ask them a series of questions about their drug and alcohol history. One of the questions is: "What kind of person are you?"

Men will openly tell me about their drug and alcohol abuse, about lying to their family, about leaving their children and refusing to pay child support, about all kinds of immoral sexual behavior, about stealing from family or friends, about their time in prison, about abusing their wife or girl friend, about suicide attempts, DUI's, crimes they have committed, and on and on. (Sometimes their stories even make Tennessee Titan, Pacman Jones, sound like a model citizen.) Then when I ask them the question; "What kind of person are you?" they almost all say; "I am a good person."

And it is not just alcoholics and addicts who believe they are "good" people. As our society continues to ditch the common views of morality from almost every human culture, religion, and time period; we still claim that we are "good" people. But are we?

Paul of Tarsus, who wrote a big portion of the New Testament said: "I am the chief of sinners," and "O wretched man that I am." While we, in our day, can even sing the song that says: "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me," all the while boasting in our self-proclaimed goodness.

In this puffed up, feel good, anything goes culture, we seem to have lost the ability to humbly and sincerely say: "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."
Posted by Steve Simms at 7:37 AM - 10 Comments   Add a Comment  
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Comments:

When people tell me they are 'good' I sometimes wonder what they are 'good' for - CS Lewis made this observation after visiting some cemeteries in England and seeing epitaphs that said , 'here lies ____________ a good man'

on a serious note, CS Lewis said what the world needs is NEW MEN not nice men - he wrote a book with that in mind.

The world is full of 'nice' men - not NEW men!

ron
 
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by AZRON (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 15, 2007 @ 10:10 AM




AZRON: So very true! Thanks, Ron.  
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by Attitude-engineer (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 15, 2007 @ 10:11 AM




AE - yes I am a sinner but I also have a struggle with the good/bad analogy. You tell someone they are bad and that is the kind of behavior you will get; you compliment someone on their good behavior and it will generate more of it.
God did not create anything but good - in the beginning or now. I have written an article on this very thing and am wondering how to condense it at this moment.
Let me say this for now: it is the choices that one makes that are good or bad. Those choices have consequences and one of them is spiritual death when the choices are sinful. Since we all make sinful choices we are in need of Jesus as Savior; that choice is the best choice and most important choice one can make. So am I good or am I bad: are you good or are you bad? Everyone of us is a good person; it is the choices that needs to be addressed! June
 
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by Praywithhope (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 15, 2007 @ 10:38 AM




The Bible disagrees with you, June. The Bible does not teach that we are good people. Good people do not need a Savior. Paul said: "There is none righteous, no not one." Proverbs says that "the heart is desperately wicked". Jesus said: "There is none good but the Father." Isaiah said: "All of our righteousness is as filthy rags." So how are we good in the light of those Scriptures?  
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by Attitude-engineer (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 15, 2007 @ 9:53 PM




The Scripture that you quoted is what brought me to the Lord. Romans 7.

I agree with you, AE..............we are rotten. Rotten to the core. I grew up in a 'good' family. Oooooo, we were SO respectable. Even behind closed doors there were no humungous skeletons in the closet.

But you know what? Our brother Jeremiah says "the heart is deceitful above all things..........who can know it?"

Even after 20 years of walking with the Lord (over ten years ago) the Lord showed me something that I "thought". It's a long story that I won't go into right now, but when He showed me that I repented. I didn't even know I felt that way but I did. Repenting about that particular thing changed my life. Remember that I was a mature Christian as the time.

It's amazing how ignorant we are about ourselves. That's why we have to believe what God has to say about us, right AE?
 
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by prisonerofhope (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 15, 2007 @ 10:00 PM




POH: Romans 7 is so powerful. It shows what we humans are really like. Although we are made in God's image, we have fallen. That image is messed up in us. And now we are born with a sin nature -- what the New Testament calls our "old man". And boy is it corrupt. That corruption is a part of all of us. That is why we need salvation, deliverance, and transformation. We need to be born again because the old man is, as you said POH, rotten. And even when we are born again, the old man sticks around and tries to mess us up. That is why we have to die to self. It is a spiritual deception to think that we are good. I agree with Paul, "O wretched man that I am." Now you got me going, POH. Thanks.  
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by Attitude-engineer (PM , CC ) on Friday March 16, 2007 @ 1:26 PM




AE - I have agonized over how to respond - literally. It has taken years of healing for me to even believe that God could find even a speck of good in me - I guess I need an explanation of Genesis 1 where God created all things and repeatedly it says "and God that it was good." Even after he created mankind. I have alot of things that I want to say but sometimes one needs to know if it is productive and edifying for God. If God creates bad things - rather than allows us to make the choices - I wish I had known that before I had my children. June  
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by Praywithhope (PM , CC ) on Friday March 16, 2007 @ 3:34 PM




June: Hey, I hope I didn't put any pressure on you.

You are right that God created everthing to be good. Evil is always a perversion of good. So with mankind our original goodness fell when Adam and Eve turned against God and spiritual (and physical) death came upon the human race. We as their descendents carry that evil nature.

Now there is a paradox here. We are like an expensive computer that has been missed up. It is still an expensive computer, but it is a mess. So with us. We are extremely valuable as God's creatures who were made in His image; but we are messed up. That is what Jesus is all about, healing us.
 
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by Attitude-engineer (PM , CC ) on Friday March 16, 2007 @ 3:44 PM




AE - so is it true that there is a seed of good in all put there by God that needs to be given life? If my computer is messed up I know that it is inherently still a good machine it just needs repair - if I am messed up by sin am I not inherently still God's created person I just need the repair of salvation.
This is where I am coming from: when I was a child and growing up I was told I was worthless, I would never amount to anything, they wondered what was wrong with me, I was bad (even was punished when I told the truth and told I was lying - that left a scar that still hurts), I cannot even or at least I will not put the words on here that I was called and my parents were Christians - my father a deacon/trustee/teacher/preached some too. Love was conditional on how they felt and/or on what I did or did not do. If God had not stopped me at age 18 - I looked as healthy as I do now - but a blood test revealed I was less than 24 hours from death - I would no doubt have been an alcoholic, drug addict, prostitute - one or all - all I know is that I had had enough of the so-called God I had been fed.
It took me a long time to learn about God's love and then to truly accept that it was for me. Once I was able to understand that God did not make me bad - it still took me a long time to really grasp it and make it mine. I have walked with children in these circumstances - worked with them - saw them begin to heal - but it is tough. Well, this is long - so will sign off - respond if you care to, maybe this will help you understand where I am coming from, june
 
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by Praywithhope (PM , CC ) on Friday March 16, 2007 @ 6:14 PM




Well said, June.  
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by Attitude-engineer (PM , CC ) on Monday March 19, 2007 @ 8:52 AM


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   
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